Follow

meta 

if the work of community is not done, like it wasn’t done elsewhere, why do you think masto would be any different than elsewhere

the advantage of decentralization is closer accountability of moderators. unlike a centralized company’s, moderators for a community are known people who are accountable. and if a segment of a community is unmoderated or malicious, it can be cut off — by a moderator on your instance, not by you, which is a problem.

meta 

besides the failures of the federate-by-default model

moderators on an instance have accepted responsibility for a community and should be kept accountable by their community

and the ultimate recourse is defederation or moving instances, for now,

which perhaps should not be the only or the immediate recourse.

there are ways to build a history of accountability and minimal community standards IMO but there is zero work in that direction

Show thread

meta 

you know what?

cryptofashy bs people thrive in a community because they are not moderated away. and they are not moderated away because there are no _consequences_ for not doing so.

you want an immediate bettering of the ecosystem? create consequences. stop federation by default. create a pledge system to require registration in a communal resource with points of contact before large instances will federate with you. make moderators responsible to other instances’ moderators, for a start.

Show thread

meta 

these are systemic problems and they require collectively enforced systemic solutions.

Show thread

meta 

that requires the understanding that incidents will happen and that we need to collectively handle them like adults. that rather than get angry at random people we sit down with the people who have accepted responsibility for what their system spews out and actually make sure that forsaking that responsibility doesn’t just result in angry harassment with no further effect.

Show thread

meta 

but nooooooooooooooo no one is interested in treating people like people online so who the fuck cares. go to hell, everyone. go build the sixteen-thousandth iteration of a forum system and watch it burn again in racism and misias and internecine conflict amplified by tools of anonymity and deresponsibilization.

Show thread

meta 

no one is interested in doing the work of making community work without the cloak of too-deep technical knowledge and for this we will all burn in the hellsites that we make over and over and over again.

“community” online does not fucking exist here; it rarely has elsewhere; it has almost invariably burned the fuck down.

Show thread

meta 

I’m angry and sad. It’s not decently safe anywhere.

Show thread

meta 

@millenomi people on here spend so much time shitting on techbros for thinking that their newest shiniest supposed general solution will cure every social ill

and then turn around and act surprised when the solution they're personally part of doesn't have the same magical outcomes that they're so rightfully derisive of otherwise

meta 

@syntacticsugarglider we should shit on those techbros tbh

since everyone should shit on those techbros all fucking day long, which is just and correct and right, it’s kind of not a factor here. I’m only interested in the further behavior of the people who have decided to acquire responsibility for part of the system.

meta 

@millenomi I'm not saying it's wrong to shit on those techbros, much the opposite. My point is that people need to **direct that same critical lens toward their own belief in federation as a cure-all for social ills that they continue to perpetuate by their own active ignorance**

meta 

@syntacticsugarglider that is not an actionable next step. rejected.

meta 

@millenomi being critical of our failure to address social issues that are independent of technical substrate through relevant societally critical lenses isn't an actionable next step? isn't that the only way to determine the next concrete step?

meta 

@syntacticsugarglider the next concrete step is to responsibilize the exact people who have decided to deem themselves responsible for corners of fedi that have grown. I’ve spent the last thirty minutes gathering the names of the admins of all instances on joinmastodon that have 1k or more users to contact them publicly.

“Determine the next step” is empty. it says not who should, how they are responsible for it, or what the timeframe is. being annoying is, however, doable.

meta 

@millenomi sounds like you've already figured out how to take action, which is not something I'd yet achieved to a degree at which I would feel comfortable taking action. I'm probably hiding complacently behind my privilege because I'm not directly threatened by what's happening (at least not that I've experienced). Honestly I'm rather ill-informed on all this, which I know makes it my responsibility to seek out context. I (in good faith) wish you luck in your direct action.

meta 

@millenomi merveilles is very much an isolated environment and I often miss out on the larger-scale dynamics of the milieu I'm supposedly part of but am in fact largely compartmentalised from

fedi moderation meta 

@millenomi this "central register with points of contact" opens up the door for abusing moderators, a step toward a network without marginalized people

fedi moderation meta 

@uint8_t understood. I do not hold the solutions, but I want to have people get into talks for them.

What can we do to build consequences for malicious action over the network, especially malicious action against marginalized people? How do we hold moderators accountable for their work?

fedi moderation meta 

@uint8_t Also, of note, points of contact don’t have to be personally identifiable, much like most of the admins I tagged are generic admin accounts.

fedi moderation meta 

@uint8_t *many, not most.

Sign in to participate in the conversation
Mastodon

The social network of the future: No ads, no corporate surveillance, ethical design, and decentralization! Own your data with Mastodon!